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[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Forum Board ] [ FAQ ] Someone else take a try at his logic, please (NT) Posted by Rick, the Probate Guy on April 13, 2008 at 1:29 PM In Reply to: Re: My final attempt at getting clarity... posted by Dan on April 13, 2008 at 10:50 AM : Thanks for the input guys... I will address my concern with # 1 as # 2.. the Medi Cal claims blow the deal out of the water and we have had no success in reaching the right people through numerous attempts. Back to # 1, I know it is a Notice of Trustee Sale and it is not something else as it is. I personally don't care it was recorded as a Trustee'd Deed.. Better for me as it reduces the exposure on the property. I do care about bidding for it at the auction, winning the bid then being notifed it was an illegal sale... My understanding is that subscription services such as Redloc, Data Quick, newspapers / journals etc get their Notice of Trustee sale information from the recorders office or buy it from a subcontractor who gets it from the recorders office. So my thinking is that procedurally these companies / people will search the Notice of Trustee's at the recorders, gather the necessary information from each sale notification to be able to publish the location, day, time etc of the sale. This NTS is never going to show up in their search of NTS documents. It won't show up because it was cross recorded as a Trustee's Deed. O.k. now on to the sale date when this home goes to auction at the court house steps. Unless you looked up the name of the deseased / person in foreclosure or were looking at Trustee's deeds you would not know any information on this sale as how could it have been publicized based on what I wrote earlier. Would this be considered a legal sale? : The loan is small enough that it looks like a second... so my partner and I will be at the auction, him on one side with the money and me on the other as if we do not know eachother. When this house comes up and there are blank stares amongst the other faces, he will qualify his bid.Once the bidding starts and gets going... I will cough out an expression.. plenty clear and loud enough to hear me say ...."he is buying a second" : Is this a legal sale? Or could it be considered illegal due to the sale never being properly publicized? : We will check with our atty and title companies to explain the situation and get thier feedback. I am also reading the Civil Code 2924 : -------------------------------------------------------------- : : Dan - These are the two areas where I'm having problem getting clear on, and they're both pretty essential to both strategy and outcome: : : 1) If a document, such as the Notice of Trustee Sale, was recorded, why do you believe it to have any validity beyond it's face? If you're saying that the recorder mis-referenced it, so what? It's still what it is. Are you suggesting that someone is relying on this document to be something other than the NTS? As I see it, that's all that it is. : : 2) CA Dept of Health Services DID place involuntary liens on properties of decedent's estates (or last to die, if held jointly and married) but that went away, as I said before, sometime around 1995. Subsequently, Medi-Cal claims are non-secured but have a dual-priority of order of preference in the food chain of creditors. The actual priority isn't really germain to this post. : : Depending on when the original probate was filed (and I presume never closed, although you leave out that important detail), the Medi-Cal claim may or may not be a lien on the property. It should not be characterized as a judgment. : : You could buy from the original administrator, or get a successor P/R named, and avoid the second probate (at least as far as buying the property is concerned). It might be cumbersome, but you may have a better element of control than you would if purchased at the sale. : : All other things being considered, your best bet probably IS to bid at the sale to perfect title, especially if you have reverse engineered title and are satisfied with the chain. Presuming that there would be surplus funds, they would have to be part of the original (or subsequent) probate estate and Medi-Cal would likely gobble up a fair share, maybe even all of it. : : There are other plays here, but they are proprietary as that is my business. : : I don't know if I've helped or hampered, but have fun with this either way whether or not you figure out all the different ways to extract money from this situation. Follow Ups: Ms. Amanpour taking over .... Lughead 8:42 PM, 04/13/08 (5) Re: Ms. Amanpour taking over .... John in SD 9:28 PM, 04/14/08 (4) Re: Ms. Amanpour taking over .... Lughead 11:16 PM, 04/14/08 (3) Re: Ms. Amanpour taking over .... Dan 8:40 AM, 04/15/08 (2) Re: Ms. Amanpour taking over .... lughead 5:08 PM, 04/15/08 (0) Any potential T/S problem due to mis-indexed doc? Rick, the Probate Guy 12:50 AM, 04/15/08 (0) Post a Followup: Name : E-Mail : Subject : Comments: : : Thanks for the input guys... I will address my concern with # 1 as # 2.. the Medi Cal claims blow the deal out of the water and we have had no success in reaching the right people through numerous attempts. Back to # 1, I know it is a Notice of Trustee Sale and it is not something else as it is. I personally don't care it was recorded as a Trustee'd Deed.. Better for me as it reduces the exposure on the property. I do care about bidding for it at the auction, winning the bid then being notifed it was an illegal sale... My understanding is that subscription services such as Redloc, Data Quick, newspapers / journals etc get their Notice of Trustee sale information from the recorders office or buy it from a subcontractor who gets it from the recorders office. So my thinking is that procedurally these companies / people will search the Notice of Trustee's at the recorders, gather the necessary information from each sale notification to be able to publish the location, day, time etc of the sale. This NTS is never going to show up in their search of NTS documents. It won't show up because it was cross recorded as a Trustee's Deed. O.k. now on to the sale date when this home goes to auction at the court house steps. Unless you looked up the name of the deseased / person in foreclosure or were looking at Trustee's deeds you would not know any information on this sale as how could it have been publicized based on what I wrote earlier. Would this be considered a legal sale? : : The loan is small enough that it looks like a second... so my partner and I will be at the auction, him on one side with the money and me on the other as if we do not know eachother. When this house comes up and there are blank stares amongst the other faces, he will qualify his bid.Once the bidding starts and gets going... I will cough out an expression.. plenty clear and loud enough to hear me say ...."he is buying a second" : : Is this a legal sale? Or could it be considered illegal due to the sale never being properly publicized? : : We will check with our atty and title companies to explain the situation and get thier feedback. I am also reading the Civil Code 2924 : : -------------------------------------------------------------- : : : Dan - These are the two areas where I'm having problem getting clear on, and they're both pretty essential to both strategy and outcome: : : : 1) If a document, such as the Notice of Trustee Sale, was recorded, why do you believe it to have any validity beyond it's face? If you're saying that the recorder mis-referenced it, so what? It's still what it is. Are you suggesting that someone is relying on this document to be something other than the NTS? As I see it, that's all that it is. : : : 2) CA Dept of Health Services DID place involuntary liens on properties of decedent's estates (or last to die, if held jointly and married) but that went away, as I said before, sometime around 1995. Subsequently, Medi-Cal claims are non-secured but have a dual-priority of order of preference in the food chain of creditors. The actual priority isn't really germain to this post. : : : Depending on when the original probate was filed (and I presume never closed, although you leave out that important detail), the Medi-Cal claim may or may not be a lien on the property. It should not be characterized as a judgment. : : : You could buy from the original administrator, or get a successor P/R named, and avoid the second probate (at least as far as buying the property is concerned). It might be cumbersome, but you may have a better element of control than you would if purchased at the sale. : : : All other things being considered, your best bet probably IS to bid at the sale to perfect title, especially if you have reverse engineered title and are satisfied with the chain. Presuming that there would be surplus funds, they would have to be part of the original (or subsequent) probate estate and Medi-Cal would likely gobble up a fair share, maybe even all of it. : : : There are other plays here, but they are proprietary as that is my business. : : : I don't know if I've helped or hampered, but have fun with this either way whether or not you figure out all the different ways to extract money from this situation. [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Forum Board ] [ FAQ ] WWWAdmin 2.0a © 1997 Matt Wright and DBasics Software Company, All Rights Reserved

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