Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order Bought a TD ($300k) that recorded concurrently with HELOC ($75k). Same lender. The HELOC recorded 1 page before the one I bought, making it senior. I'm thinking this had to be an error that occurred in Title or at the Recorder. Need to remove this lien. Anyone have a creative idea on how this can be done quickly? House is in Escrow with anxious Buyer... So far I have contacted Trustee that held sale to get Beneficiary contact info, without success. Latest idea is to contact Title Co. (who handled the concurrent transaction) to see if they will insure around the HELOC. I have heard also about purchasing a "Bond"? Seriously though, can anyone think of a valid business reason why a Bank would intentionally record this $75k HELOC in first position in front of their $300k loan?? http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,311#msg-311 Wed, 15 Jul 2026 21:54:32 -0700 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,328#msg-328 Re: Say Bill, do you do lunch? http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,328#msg-328
Surely you jest about working only 4 days a year. Nope, I now only invest in MS...and truthfully only work the auction 4, maybe 5 days per year. They have on average 6-9 million $$$ in liens every year.

you probably have to eyeball the properties that secure the tax liens before the tax auctions, ...have done it for so long here that I know justs about every nook and cranny of the country and do very little due diligence. ......and...it is almost impossible to checkout 12,992 parcels before the auction. That is what we had this time. Plus 98-99 percent will be redeemed. DO NOT BELIEVE the TV gurus who say otherwise....it just ain't gonna happen.

and you must be involved at those times when your tax liens finally pay off, and alternatively, when they don't........ The county sends me a check every month for those redeemed during the preceeding month nd I just check them off my list on my computer. Was in programming for years and have written all my programs so it really is no big deal to download the list, process it and use it.

At the end of the two yer redemption period,IF I am lucky if I get three maybe four "non-junk" pieces of property. I look it up at home on the computer and if interested will do something with it, otherwise let it go back.

And I'm also told that there's been a sizeable increase in the number of competitors that abound today versus in the "good 'ol days...making you work a lot more for your money now.

WOW! WOW! You are SPOT on here...the "Good Ole Days" of about a dozen or so of us doing it are gone!. We got investor groups. people from Omaha, Tampa, Seattle, St Louis, NYC...you name it...and now the competetion can be outrageous. Last year was very gentlemanly for some reason and this year was BRUTAL.

However, what's really impressive is you netting a 15% return on a 3% loan. And, if you somehow did that via a Roth IRA I'd have to take you to lunch.

Woul love to come out and have lunch, MY TREAT. If my wife's condition improves such that I can, will call and let you know and we will do it.

However, right now my only concern is her health and condition.

Good Luck, God Bless, Take Care.

Bill H]]> Bill H Foreclosure Forum Sat, 03 Dec 2011 17:26:33 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,326#msg-326 Say Bill, do you do lunch? http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,326#msg-326
Quote
Bill H
Rick, Kristine & Flipit:

I use HELOC for tax lien investing...AND...they are in 1st position....Never been a problem as I pay them off each year.

Best investment tool I have found. Currently at 3 percent (ARM) and making 18 percent on them.

It's TUFF to work 4 days a year.

Bill H

PS: My cancer is in remission...however...my wife's melanoma is giving us FITS!


Bill,

Surely you jest about working only 4 days a year. I'm sure you have to travel interstate to attend some of the various tax lien auctions, and you probably have to eyeball the properties that secure the tax liens before the tax auctions, and you must be involved at those times when your tax liens finally pay off, and alternatively, when they don't.

And I'm also told that there's been a sizeable increase in the number of competitors that abound today versus in the "good 'ol days...making you work a lot more for your money now.

However, what's really impressive is you netting a 15% return on a 3% loan. And, if you somehow did that via a Roth IRA I'd have to take you to lunch.]]> Ward-CA Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 23:53:57 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,325#msg-325 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,325#msg-325 flipit Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:51:12 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,324#msg-324 Re: Not a problem until it's a problem... http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,324#msg-324
I use HELOC for tax lien investing...AND...they are in 1st position....Never been a problem as I pay them off each year.

Best investment tool I have found. Currently at 3 percent (ARM) and making 18 percent on them.

It's TUFF to work 4 days a year.

Bill H

PS: My cancer is in remission...however...my wife's melanoma is giving us FITS!]]> Bill H Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:50:46 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,323#msg-323 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,323#msg-323
If there is a mistake in your situation, I'd bet on recording. The escrow companies where I am don't prepare 80/20 loan or concurrent loan docs without stamping them with specific ordering instructions. They use the stamp to indicate order and/or subord. in the escrow instrux. and on the face of DOTS. The recorder could mess that up too, but at least there is language to make the intent clear.

I'm not convinced that there was a mistake, but I hope there was. I'll be curious to see what you find out. Best of success with it, Kristine]]> Kristine-CA Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:27:27 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,322#msg-322 Re: Not a problem until it's a problem... http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,322#msg-322 flipit Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:40:32 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,321#msg-321 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,321#msg-321
I would be interested though, to see an example and hear the valid business reason for why any lender (originating both loans) would intentionally place a loan in a junior position that is 4x larger than the HELOC in a concurrent transaction.]]> flipit Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:36:38 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,319#msg-319 Not a problem until it's a problem... http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,319#msg-319
Don't panic just yet. Just order a prelim from them and see what's on it. That company provided a policy based on the original lender's escrow instructions. Unlike Kristine, I haven't seen a deal yet where the Heloc was intentionally recorded in senior position by a conventional lender.

Also, the county recorder may very well have screwed up, not understanding the significance and importance of following instructions exactly as directed. Remember, these same recdorder's office people walk among us and are issued driver's licenses.

The title plant records may tell an entirely diffferent story and this may help you, too. If it WAS intended that the Heloc record in 2nd (jr) position, a subsequent insured transaction may show it title's records as the Heloc being wiped off via the sale as you interpreted the loan positions.

As a final word, there are t-sale buyers with big stones who routinely bid on these deals knowing that they might need to litigate later to clear title.]]> Rick Harmon Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 10:27:35 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,317#msg-317 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,317#msg-317
Did you buy this property thinking the HELOC was in second? Do you know if the HELOC is tapped out? IMO this is not a title issue or mistake, but rather you bought something subject to a possible $75K first. What about having escrow make a demand of the lender and see what is owed? I don't know what title company would bond around a legit, open trust deed in 1st position. Bonding is for title issues that aren't likely to re-surface. Here you are talking about an open first.]]> Kristine-CA Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 09:02:18 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,316#msg-316 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,316#msg-316 flipit Foreclosure Forum Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:52:53 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,315#msg-315 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,315#msg-315 mikebick Foreclosure Forum Thu, 01 Dec 2011 23:28:56 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,314#msg-314 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,314#msg-314 flipit Foreclosure Forum Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:33:05 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,312#msg-312 Re: Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,312#msg-312
House has 2 liens, with the same bank.

1. 700k
2. 200k

but (2) was recorded first. Property is worth about 900k. Someone bought the second for 200k because it was recorded first.

My thinking is that there was probably some document specifying the position regardless of order of recording. I did not follow up on what happened with this investment. One fellow bidder stated "there is no way that the bank lets him get away with that".

In your case, does the HELOC's trust deed somewhere specify that it shall be junior to the other lien?]]> mikebick Foreclosure Forum Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:23:58 -0800 http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,311#msg-311 Title calamity - TD's recorded in wrong order http://www.foreclosureforum.com/board/read.php?2,311,311#msg-311
So far I have contacted Trustee that held sale to get Beneficiary contact info, without success. Latest idea is to contact Title Co. (who handled the concurrent transaction) to see if they will insure around the HELOC. I have heard also about purchasing a "Bond"?

Seriously though, can anyone think of a valid business reason why a Bank would intentionally record this $75k HELOC in first position in front of their $300k loan??]]> flipit Foreclosure Forum Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:13:52 -0800